Official Luthiers Forum!

I have been enjoying some older issues of GAL magazines and two things occur to me:

#1 - There is nothing *NEW* in lutherie!

#2 - As long as I am not selling instruments, is it Okay to copy a rosette or headplate that someone else "developed"? I have read here that folks give credit to their influences but when you have NO idea who did it first - then what?

as long as something is not patented or has a copyright/trademark your
free to copy it. However my opinion is it is best to modify the design or
come up with something new and unique to you.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Technically, you can copy anything you like as long as it is for personal use.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

If you copy a headplate, but don't know who to give credit too, just inlay "Your Name Here", at the top! That seems fair!

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Really have several different issues here. Copyright law, trademark law, and patent law.

Copyright law allows whats called "fair use." The idea is if you paid for it, you should be able to use it. Where the line is drawn is often disputed.

Patent law doesn't allow anyone else to use, make, or sell anything that would infringe a valid patent. There is no personal use exception. Good news is that a patent is only good for 20 years. Then it's fair game for anyone to copy.

Trademark is another story. A distinctive design can be protected as a trademark indefinitely. An example is probably the Fender headstock. Gibson tried to sue PRS for copying the Les Paul design and lost. Mainly because no reasonable person would confuse the two.

As a pratical matter, although making or copying for personal use might be a violation of all three sets of laws, there is little to no risk of getting in trouble for it.

My gut feeling is that very little in the world of lutherie is protected anymore.

Joe Volin

Something else to consider is the issue of international borders. Patents issued in the US are useless and non enforceable elsewhere. Take the recent RIM blackberry case - if the US werent RIM's overwhelmingly biggest market, they wouldnt have cared less about settling the case - NTP cant stop them from violating (if they really are) a patent anywhere else in the world.

Wanna see something else - more applicable to lutherie ??? Go to a web site called guitarandpickup.com - they are making absolutely dead on knockoffs of PRS - you can get a Santana for 600US. PRS cant touch them as they are offshore, and are not importing into the US in any volume (no one is stopping one off shipments to persons) Friend of friend has one and says the quality is very good.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

   There are actually a few guys who are makiing a very nice living building and selling their guitars while the shapes and much of their design have been directly copied from another builder's work.

   I've talked with a builder who told me that he's had guys come to his shop, trace his body shape, record his bracing placement and dimensions and even offer and give guitars made in that same shape to his endorsers. I guess as long as it's alright with him, no one can really say anything in complaintabout it.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega GuitarsKevin Gallagher38837.4310185185

I hope it's alright and that I won't get sued but I copy Heiber's lutes in every detail, down to the hand cut screw in the neck joint! Don't anyone here go tell him.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

While it is something that goes on everyday in a number of different ways, I would hope that most folks involved in instrument making ie guitars would strive to develop their own signatures or accents to their work. Here on the OLF we share what seems like everything with each other whether experienced professional or newbie. There is only so many ways to shape a particular type of guitar, plans, moulds, bending patterns are all available. As well, I would assume that their is only so many shapes one could use to create bridges, headplates, and headstock. That said, policing these possible infringements would be a real undertaking so it is just not done unless someone of formidable competition enters the market with a copy cat version of a top earner for one of the companies. Tony Karol makes a good point, one of the real problems in the growing Chinese manufacturing markets are their complete disregard for US Patent, Trademark or any other laws for that matter that involves intelectual properties and protections.

My two cents worth

Mike

I think full-out forgery is the only thing musical instrument makers really have to worry about. As long as the unoriginal thinkers making those PRS copies don't put the PRS name on their guitars, they're not going to take any sales away from PRS. If I could afford a real Humphrey, I wouldn't be looking for one of those Martin copies; or, if I could afford a real Martin, I wouldn't buy a Washburn; or if I could afford a real Benedetto, I wouldn't be looking for something made by Fender (which, actually, I couldn't afford, either). The copyists are only filling a low & mid-priced market that domestic builders couldn't reach even if there were no competition, and at the same time they're making decent guitars available to people who couldn't afford one otherwise. That's good, because it keeps people excited about guitars!

We're only going to have to worry about Chinese guitars when they start using the knowledge they've gained to make original designs that are as good as our domestics. Individual luthiers can rest easy, I think, until Chinese builders become affluent enough to set up private shops--and that's going to take a long time.