Official Luthiers Forum!

Well, it seems to happen to all of us from time to time, and now it's my turn. On a recent post (the "shall I sunburst my walnut guitar?" post) Hesh called himself a "jerk". It was a self-deprecating remark which seemed to be in keeping with Hesh's laid-back style. In my response, I tried to fall into the same humorous vein. (I called him a jerk also.) Well, it didn't work. It was unclear, and specifically, it was unclear to Hesh. I offered an apology to Hesh privately, and I *think* we've cleared up the matter. But for anyone else who might have taken offense on Hesh's behalf, let me offer my heart-felt apology.

Humor is a difficult thing to master, and it is so easy to be misunderstood. If one lives by the quip, one will probably die by the quip. I'm not overly fond of emoticons, and it is difficult to see the twinkle in someone's eye when they're teasing on a forum like this one.

Let me also say this: I really like Hesh. I like his work, I like his posts. I like the way he writes. I love the way that he uses a commode for an avatar. In a lot of ways I find Hesh to be just the sort of guy needed on a forum like this, and it mortifies me to think that I might have publicly embarrassed him.

So Hesh buddy, I really do apologize. And for anyone else offended by my flippant remark, please accept my apology.

I'll endeavour to do better.

Oh yes:

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Steve,
I read that post, and thought to myself, Hmm, I know what Steve is saying and HOW he is saying it, with humor, But I could also see how it could be miss interrupted.
That said, I have always lived by this rule with regards to posting on public forums.

Everything I say is said with the best of intentions, be it a honest comment, silly remark, or a friendly insult with a wink and smack up side the head!

I also READ everything using those same guide lines first. To add to that, I would never assume a comment made by well established forum member such as your self to be degrading or negative in anyway, that is not your style.

Glad your guys are back on the same page.

_________________
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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Back in the days before on-line forums with emoticons, folks used to append abbreviations to their statements, like ROTFL (and its variants ROTFLMAO and ROTFLMAOAPDML). I guess many still do.

One that I found very useful after a wisecrack had been made was <GDR>, which stands for "grinning, ducking and running." I still think that <GDR> gets the point across that a person just made a smartalecky wisecrack (and that the crack wasn't to be taken seriously) better than any silly emoticon.

<linguist mode> As a linguist, I have always found this topic fascinating because it reinforces how strongly humans rely upon nonverbal communication when interpreting meaning and intent. Even many verbal means of communication exist as a layer "above" language, which go by stuffy linguistic terms such as 'prosody' and 'suprasegmentals', a good example of which is sarcasm. When considering that sarcasm is saying one thing but getting the point across that one means the exact opposite by altering the emphasis and tone of ones voice, one realizes the inherent shortcomings of text to express this. "Disambiguating" the semantic confusion in textual statements is not at all easy, and is one of the reasons why misunderstandings occur. I find it equally interesting that, despite their frequent use, emoticons and acronyms remain poor substitutes to the sorts of both verbal and nonverbal communication that carry semantic content. I wonder, how many times has a person looking for a emoticon not found one to express his specific emotional and semantic content? It happens frequently with me.</linguist mode>

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

It must be a Steve thing. I know another Steve that has done stuff like that too. I'm not telling who it is.

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"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] Now wait just one minute here - I AM a jerk! Ask Lacey.......

Steve you are one quality guy and I sincerely thank you for your post here. Steve and I had exchanged PMs over this very human potential misunderstanding and Steve was also a caring enough sort to initiate the contact. Any potential misunderstanding never had the opportunity to occur because Steve was kind enough and thoughtful enough to head it off nearly at once.

What has resulted here is that I have a new friend in Steve and it does not get much better than that.

I am new to forums with the OLF being the first forum that I have ever darkened with my participation. With this said my own conduct has been less than appropriate on more than one occasion. One of the things that I needed to learn is that I have no right to create a sense of tension for any member or reader. It's a shared community and I have a duty to keep it fun and appropriate for all. So I am learning too.

I am also aware that my own personal style of communication may bait people at times and/or be perhaps a bit to friendly for some people's comfort levels. I will say that all of you guys mean a great deal to me and I consider you my bros in our shared love of guitar building. When one is as obsessed about guitar building as I am one's guitar building bros can seem just like family.

Steve one of the expressions that I have learned here is "good on ya" and this seems to fit well right now.

Steve please have not doubt that we are indeed pals and that I have the highest level of respect and gratitude for you.

Be warned though, I fully expect Serge to come along and suggest a group hug…….
[/QUOTE]

Amen!

_________________
Beautiful and unusual tone woods at a reasonable price.
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Been guilty myself.

Al

I'm here guys! ok, silly emoticons aside, i understand fully how our great pal Steve feels, i'd like to offer many of you my sincere apologies for feeling too comfortable at times and assuming things at other times, it is too easy to either insult or misinterpret (sp?) people as Michael said when non-verbal is absent or when making bad use of emoticons.

Hesh, i for one felt guilty lately for assuming whatever intentions you had regarding lutherie, OTOH, i probably took for granted that you knew that my intentions were just harmless.

If i upset any of you by my style or by the number of posts i have made since the beginning or even by using the button outrageously or even by just being too sweet, please forgive me guys, i have slowed down a bit lately because of exactly that, i just felt that some of you needed a break from me and it would be understandable, i know i just can't please everyone here tho i try real hard! Probably an old fear of rejection that was haunting me right? so thanks for the patience you all have showed towards your Bear so far!

Serge

Hesh, i second the idea of a group hug!

Now here's an amazing thing: I have gone from one who needed to offer an apology, to being called "...one quality guy...". Which I think says more about Hesh than it does about me.

Michael, thanks for the linguistic insights. These kinds of things interest me as well. When younger, I attended a Chinese / American church, where some of the regular attendees told me that they had embarrassed themselves by trying to say "Praise the Lord" in Chinese. (You know, trying to fit in and all.) Only to discover that due to a wrong inflection they had been saying "Praise the pig". At least we're not dealing with the Chinese language on this forum, eh?

SteveSteve Kinnaird38868.9426851852

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

Now wait just a minute there bub! "Praise the pig"? Why, how dare you...



Yes, it's true, without the glint in my eye, you never know when I'm kidding. I offer a variant of the pejorative saying tagged to members of the legal profession: How do you know when I'm kidding? - my lips are moving! In fact, I think I'll change my OLF tag line...

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Steve,

I'm sorry. I for one cannot accept your obviously insincere apology.

Anyone with as many posts as you should know that the only acceptable apology is one accompanied by a free case of beer sent to every member of the forum! Now, I WILL accept your apology when I get my case of Labatt's Long Necks and not a moment before!!

Stevesfbrown38869.7509606481

Hey now this is the reason why i love posting on the "OLF" i haven`t meet a crowd of people that are so down to earth & friendly anywhere else. heres to all yall with the kind/big hearts out there. sob sob I mean ahh yeah

I've had the pleasure of meeting Steve in real life - and I'm no optamist. But Steve is one of the most likeable people I've met in a good while. If he thought I was a jerk I'd be honored to know he took the time to think anything at all of me

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] When younger, I attended a Chinese / American church, where some of the regular attendees told me that they had embarrassed themselves by trying to say "Praise the Lord" in Chinese. (You know, trying to fit in and all.) Only to discover that due to a wrong inflection they had been saying "Praise the pig". At least we're not dealing with the Chinese language on this forum, eh?

Steve[/QUOTE]

As best man at my brothers wedding in Sinapore I was required to propose a traditional toast in Chinese. To this day I don't know exactly what I said byt with my mispronunciation it apparently was something about my brothers need for an aphrodisiac on his wedding night Languade is a funny thing

[QUOTE=jfrench] I've had the pleasure of meeting Steve in real life - and I'm no optamist. But Steve is one of the most likeable people I've met in a good while. If he thought I was a jerk I'd be honored to know he took the time to think anything at all of me [/QUOTE]

Joshua--yes, I think of you often. I remember the time you took out of your busy schedule to entertain a couple of East Texas drifters, and answer a buch of dumb questions.
Joshua is as patient as he is talented. Plus, a lot of fun to go wood shopping with!


Steve Steve Kinnaird38870.5226157407

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=sfbrown] Steve,

I'm sorry. I for one cannot accept your obviously insincere apology.

Anyone with as many posts as you should know that the only acceptable apology is one accompanied by a free case of beer sent to every member of the forum! Now, I WILL accept your apology when I get my case of Labatt's Long Necks and not a moment before!!

Steve[/QUOTE]

Steve, would a tub-o-lard do?

We seem to have lots of that around here, and would be pleased to send it on.

You pay the shipping.

SKSteve Kinnaird38870.4969097222

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=arvey]
As best man at my brothers wedding in Sinapore I was required to propose a traditional toast in Chinese. To this day I don't know exactly what I said byt with my mispronunciation it apparently was something about my brothers need for an aphrodisiac on his wedding night Languade is a funny thing[/QUOTE]


Ouch! Has your brother forgive you yet?

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] [QUOTE=arvey]
As best man at my brothers wedding in Sinapore I was required to propose a traditional toast in Chinese. To this day I don't know exactly what I said byt with my mispronunciation it apparently was something about my brothers need for an aphrodisiac on his wedding night Languade is a funny thing[/QUOTE]


Ouch! Has your brother forgive you yet?

Steve[/QUOTE]

At least he didn't say his brother needed Viagra...

Sorry...shouldn't have gone there.


Don Williams38870.5403240741

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Steve[/QUOTE]
Steve, would a tub-o-lard do?
SK[/QUOTE]
Make mine a can of abalone!

[QUOTE=CarltonM] [QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird] Steve[/QUOTE]
Steve, would a tub-o-lard do?
SK[/QUOTE]
Make mine a can of abalone! [/QUOTE]

Carlton,

I assume you don't spit out, but rather keep, the shells?

Steve

_________________
From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=Steve Kinnaird]Carlton,
I assume you don't spit out, but rather keep, the shells? Steve[/QUOTE]
Yeah, they make great serving spoons!

[QUOTE=Hesh]Now wait just one minute here - I AM a jerk! Ask Lacey....... [/QUOTE]

Yea! That's what everybody told me!

Humor has an ability to be very powerful, both to offend and uplift. I don't know if many of you guys have noticed, but I have made a joke.... or two, not many!

    If I've offended somebody or if they have wondered what I meant, I have always been light hearted(perhaps light mind too, unfortuately). I have the greatest of admiration not just for the work that you all do, but also the posting for the world to see.

   Especially, the mistakes and trouble questions. This allows me and others to learn which I REALLY DO appreciate! When I get on top of things a little I'll build an acoustic and post.

    I feel Serge takes the concern about posting TOO MUCH seriously! Take it from me, you can't post too much from my point of view, Bud! That kind of spirit is greatly appreciated.

    Hesh's work is outstanding and his sense of humor, I admire his contributions to the OLF! There is so much good work done here!

    I ask everybody humbly, if I offend or concern you personally, in any way, drop me a PM and I clear it up as much as I can.

I value the professionalism I've seen here, not just in luthiery, but in brotherhood! Thanks guys!!! Billy T38870.7495717593

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Oh Man!!! I just ran out of PM storage! I must be pretty offensive! This is going to take a while!

Can I offer anybody free abalone as a penance?

Billy T38870.7609027778

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Billy, you got a pm!

Thanks dude, your humor and playful spirit is really appreciated here also my brother!