Official Luthiers Forum!

Another vote for Laguna. I want to be buried with my 24.

I tried the Laguna bands three years ago and noticed the harmonic vibrations with them. Maybe they've fixed the design?

Larry,
I'm not enough of an expert to say whether the problems were cured, but the new design is a significant improvement over the old one.

Hey man, Don't you just love tools????????

Plus Laguna will ship to Canada. No extra duties or freight charges, at least to Mississagua, Ontario. I could go pick that up myself if the freight from there is too brutal, and at 350 lbs., I suspect it would be.

I'm still studying. Good tip on the Lennox blades Kelby.

I'm finding that I really enjoy studying these saws. Is that normal?

   

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

I just learned that Grizzly has a new version of their 21" bandsaw - a 5 hp model.

Yowza!

Cast iron wheels, 4600 fpm...serious looking saw.
I may have to buy one...
Don Williams38881.5400694444

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=Don Williams] I just learned that Grizzly has a new version of their 21" bandsaw - a 5 hp model.

Yowza!

Cast iron wheels, 4600 fpm...serious looking saw.
I may have to buy one...
[/QUOTE]



Don, I hope you don't incur such a cost because of my queries!

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Wow, this forum can be expensive! I have a Laguna 16HD saw and thought I'd check on the closeout Lennox blades Laguna is selling. Wound up upgrading the motor and fence on my saw as well. Better get back to work!!!!!

Alain,

Not to worry! It's not like I have $2000 sitting around just waiting to be spent. Not gonna happen in the forseeable future. Although if I decide to go into selling wood for a living like Mr. Zoot, I'll need a beast of a saw like that.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Well I can't afford to play the game you guys are talkin since I don't have $2000 layin around either but I just ordered this guy. Hopefully they have it in stock and it'll arrive in a few days.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Wow, there you go! A 14" steel-framed saw finally!
The big issue I have with my Rockwell 14 is that it cannot handle the high tension needed to handle carbide tipped blades. You can almost see the fram flex...well, not quite, but you get the idea. Good Choice. Lots of power there too at 2hp, and computer-balanced cast itron wheels to round it off. Nice package too, with the 6" extruded aluminum resaw fence.

A Winner!



Grizzly is going to own the bandsaw market before you know it...


Don Williams38881.6889814815

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I'm glad I don't Resaw, one less thing to think about

Mike
White Oak, Texas

[QUOTE=Don Williams] Wow, there you go! A 14" steel-framed saw finally!
The big issue I have with my Rockwell 14 is that it cannot handle the high tension needed to handle carbide tipped blades.




[/QUOTE]

carbon bands run at 21,000psi optumum... what do you think carbide tipped bands run at? I think the bigger issue is beam strength of carbide tipped bands (other than the new alumimum Lenox Master) won't allow proper flexing around small saw wheels...gullet cracks galore. As always, I could be wrong

Well I had an interesting conversation with a Laguna sales dept. employee by the name of Johny Cash. (I could swear that's what he said...). He was going on about the new Laguna blades (resaw master) and the C-8 steel they weld on them instead of carbide. The C-8 can be sharpened 7-8 times, he claimes as compared to maybe the 1-2 for carbide. I didn't think to ask which ones wears out quicker, though. So that's why Laguna are liquidating their Lenox stock. They think the new resaw master is that much better.

I bought 2 replacement bands for Serge's saw since we cooked his brand new Lee Valley blade the other night...    All was going well until we tried a piece of Makore. The band didn't like that one too much. So now I have two Lennox carbide tiped Tri-Masters on the way. 52$ each compared to a regular price of 125$ or so...   So a word to the wise. I know they have a few 105" inch blades left. A real deal!

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

Alain,

Usually, a C-8 IS carbide...


Larry,

I had a problem with my Lenox Tri-Master blade on my Delta/Rockwell 14. It kept jumping forward, smacking into the throat plate with a loud and frightening BANG!.
It turns out that two other people told me that they had the same problem with theirs. I consulted the guru of Delta 14's - Louis Iturra about it. He said that the issue was probably related to the inability of the saw to tension the blade high enough. There is also the problem of the diameter that you mentioned causing early fatigue of the band though.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

[QUOTE=Don Williams] Alain,

Usually, a C-8 IS carbide...


[/QUOTE]

   Don, not to quibble, but this Johny Cash fellow told me that the C-8 alloy had actually been around for a long time (pre WWII). The engineer fellow who invented it was german and they used this metal for knifes and bayonets and whatnot.   He also claimes that the C-8 was less brittle than carbide and that's why they can be sharpened more often.

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

And you believed a guy who said his name is Johnny Cash?

Seriously, do a Google search on C-8 steel, and on C-8 carbide, and see what you come up with...

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I just put the Grizzly re-saw
fence on my MiniMax. Big improvment. I've got their new bandsaw
power feed on order too, but it's back ordered until mid July.
As for blades, my choice for thin kerf is the Hastings, and for long life the
Lennox carbide.
-CChas Freeborn38881.9229166667

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

[QUOTE=Don Williams] And you believed a guy who said his name is Johnny Cash?

Seriously, do a Google search on C-8 steel, and on C-8 carbide, and see what you come up with...[/QUOTE]

    Well I did a bit of research and here's what I found.

    It seems the designation C-8 (or C1, C2, C3)is a 'class' or grade. Just like there are different carbide alloys (Tungsten Carbide, Titanium Carbide, Tantalum Carbide, Chromium Carbide, Chromium Cadmium...etc.), there are also different grades of metals. C2 seems to be the standard class carbide. C8 is designated as being 'special'.

    So in effect, it is possible to have a metal alloy that is of the C-8 'class' without it being a carbide alloy, per say.   You can have a C-8 steel alloy (for roof and floor beams in large structures), or a C-8 carbide steel alloy.   

    And don't even get me started on brazed ceramics and their applications to cutting tools!

    So I'll go to bed tonight knowing more than I did waking up this morning! You gotta love this forum.Alain Desforges38881.9822916667

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I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

[QUOTE=Don Williams]   He said that the issue was probably related to the inability of the saw to tension the blade high enough. [/QUOTE]

That would be absolutely true. The rest of the story is (most)14" saws cannot pretension carbon steel bands to manufacturer's' tension specs either. The best you can do is tighten until the wheels groan and back off until they run free and easy. I have the advantage of friendship with a Lenox district tech rep (who's a guitar builder) and he's taught me all kinds of tricks and tips over the years. I bought a Lenox tension meter 10 years ago when I bough my first sawmill, but don't need it these days 'cause the bands just have a tone and a "feel" when they're right

Probably 4-5 years ago Lenox marketed the Tri-Master in a prepackaged blister pack for small saws, but because of the problems we've discussed they were pulled off the market. Now they're recommended for minimum 24" saws...except the new aluminum carbide bands.

[QUOTE=Larry Davis] [QUOTE=Don Williams] Wow, there you go! A 14" steel-framed saw finally!
The big issue I have with my Rockwell 14 is that it cannot handle the high tension needed to handle carbide tipped blades.




[/QUOTE]

carbon bands run at 21,000psi optumum... what do you think carbide tipped bands run at? I think the bigger issue is beam strength of carbide tipped bands (other than the new alumimum Lenox Master) won't allow proper flexing around small saw wheels...gullet cracks galore. As always, I could be wrong [/QUOTE]

Larry - I haven't been able to find any source of aluminum bandsaw blades on the web. Have you got a link to a site that sells or describes them? (I tried a search for "aluminum lenox master" and some other combinations, too.)

Thanks, Phil

[QUOTE=Don Williams]

Larry,

I had a problem with my Lenox Tri-Master blade on my Delta/Rockwell 14. It kept jumping forward, smacking into the throat plate with a loud and frightening BANG!.
It turns out that two other people told me that they had the same problem with theirs. I consulted the guru of Delta 14's - Louis Iturra about it. He said that the issue was probably related to the inability of the saw to tension the blade high enough. There is also the problem of the diameter that you mentioned causing early fatigue of the band though. [/QUOTE]


Don, the more I think about it your problem could have been a band that was cut to long and could never be tightened enough or a tracking problem with the wheels alligment (for that band). I ran "a" Lenox carbide trimaster on a Delta 14 with no tracking or tension problems other than gullet cracking and band failure from the beam strength vs. small wheels.

[QUOTE=Phil Marino] [QUOTE=Larry Davis] [QUOTE=Don Williams] Wow, there you go! A 14" steel-framed saw finally!
The big issue I have with my Rockwell 14 is that it cannot handle the high tension needed to handle carbide tipped blades.




[/QUOTE]


carbon bands run at 21,000psi optimum... what do you think carbide tipped bands run at? I think the bigger issue is beam strength of carbide tipped bands (other than the new alumimum Lenox Master) won't allow proper flexing around small saw wheels...gullet cracks galore. As always, I could be wrong [/QUOTE]

Larry - I haven't been able to find any source of aluminum bandsaw blades on the web. Have you got a link to a site that sells or describes them? (I tried a search for "aluminum lenox master" and some other combinations, too.)

Thanks, Phil[/QUOTE]

Phil, Lenox shipped two aluminum bands directly to me for testing. There might be something on their website, but I've sent an email to my Lenox contact and will let you know when I hear back with some sourcing info. usually, Lenox is divided into districts and shops within your district would be your order source.

[QUOTE=Larry Davis]
Don, the more I think about it your problem could have been a band that was cut to long and could never be tightened enough or a tracking problem with the wheels alligment (for that band). I ran "a" Lenox carbide trimaster on a Delta 14 with no tracking or tension problems other than gullet cracking and band failure from the beam strength vs. small wheels. [/QUOTE]

Well, I have the riser block on there, and I know that it is 1/8" or so out of alignment due to poor machining of the riser. The frame fit together perfectly, but the riser is off by about 1/8" where it connects to the bottom frame. It seems to me that the hole for the pin was drilled in the wrong location. Nice going Delta. The top wheel is (looking from the front) to the right by about the 1/8".
I've thought about getting some alignment washers, but other than the Lenox blade, I haven't had any issues with it. I can't imagine it's the best situation though, as the bottom of the wood gets cut before the top when resawing. I could be wrong...maybe that's a good thing.
Clueless. Just call me Clueless.

I'll say one thing about that Trimaster...it was the only blad I ever had that could get through a 9" slab of BRW with my feeble setup. Did pretty good too, except for when it would buck...and that was scary as heck. I finally quit using it. No signs of band fatigue though.

Don Williams38882.7055439815

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."