Official Luthiers Forum!

I am thinking about making a cocobolo guitar. I bought a nice set from Allied Lutherie. It was a bit dark, so I ran it through my thickness sander. I don't have any good dust handling equipment. I hook up my Powermax to my shop vac and wear a face mask.
Last week I spent less than five minutes sanding the sides to check the color change. There was some dust in the air.
I did not have a bad reaction, but I was itchy and could sense some unpleasantness in my upper respiratory system.
Last night I cleaned out my shop vac filter and ran the shop vac again to pick up some broken glass. I had a similar reaction with just the residual dust being blow out the exhaust of the shop vac.

Should I just avoid cocobolo altogether?
I did not use gloves - would that help?
Does the reaction tend to get worse with exposure?
Anyone want a nice set of cocobolo?

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Cocobolo is a "sensitizer" meaning that many will react to it, and it will have cummulative effect. It sounds like you are sensitive to it. The only way to avoid the issues are wearing tyvek suit, respirator, and use the best dust collection you can. It can irritate both your skin and your respitratory system.

My best advice would be for you to not use it at all. Better safe than very sorry.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Steve, I think if it were me, I would avoid it completely!
If your already getting a reaction, it will only get worse the more you use it, maybe even during a single build.

Is this a commission or a personal guitar?

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

[QUOTE=SteveS] Should I just avoid cocobolo altogether?
I did not use gloves - would that help?
Does the reaction tend to get worse with exposure?
[/QUOTE]

I'm no expert, but my understanding is:

1) Maybe
2) Yes
3) Yes

I think it was Bruce Dickey who might have some good advice, but basically if you're determined to use it you may want to:

1) Completely cover your body when creating Cocobolo dust
2) Wash the clothes after the dust making work
3) Respirator for sure
4) If you have an air filtration system, work Cocobolo towards the end of the day, and then leave the filtration running for a few hours after you leave the shop
5) Since you don't seem to have good dust collection, get a HEPA filter for your vacuum, and try to remove every bit of settled dust which covers everything the morning after.

Planing and other non-dust creating procedures should cause less distress, but always use gloves. One thing to remember is that even though sometimes people don't suffer a reaction (or in your case a relatively mild one), Cocobolo and Pau Ferro as well are pretty darn good sensetizers, so eventually you may want to give up working with them.

That's about all I know, I'm sure others will have more suggestions.

Edit: I see they already do, posted above as I was writing.Pete Licis38882.459837963

I'll second Don on this one.

Since you are showing signs of an allergy, and you don't have adequate dust handing equipment, it's best to give cocobolo a wide berth.

This was to be my fifth guitar, and my first commissioned build.
I don't think it is worth exposing myself to that. I talked to someone that worked with it and she said it made her sick for several months.

Anyone want to trade or buy a nice set of coco? Am I allowed to ask that?

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Talk to Andy Z. He used coco a lot and he's a doctor.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Such pretty poison, and it smells good too.

Al

It's the extractive oils in coco bolo that cause reactions and the dust is a vehicle for those oils. once sensitized reactions get progressively worse. Skin blisters can appear just touching the wood after a point. I've read anecdotes of ER visits after handling coco bolo when allergic to it. It can cause respitory problems also.

    I've had some really bad problems with allergies and hospitals, you do not want to go there! It's BAD, REAL BAD!! You can get seriously killed! Severe anaphylactoid response is no fun!

    I was going to suggest, that if you have to finish this job, that you take the "dust processes" outside, if you can, and suit up! Easy to clean up and keeps exposure concentrations very low!

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

[QUOTE=Billy T]      You can get seriously killed!
   [/QUOTE]

...and that's the worst kind of killed....

I told this before but safety always can be reinforced. I ended up in the Casualty dpeartment of my local hospital with severe allergic reactions the first time I sanded some Pau Ferro, heart palpitaions, severe breathing difficulty, the lot. I had to spend 48hrs in hospital until I stabilised. Now I won't be in the same room as Pau Ferro, even in a finished guitar. All allergic reactions should be taken very seriously, if you've had any type of reaction it will only get worse with repeated exposure, there are plenty of other good woods out there, you don't need to use Cocobolo.

Colin

_________________
I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Hesh, it varies a lot with individuals. Cocobolo doesn't bother me, but I have trouble with walnut and cedar.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Some time ago, I ran across this list. it's 16 years old and there's a lot of individual variation, but it's a starting point.

_________________
John Cavanaugh
Saint Paul, MN
"What could possibly go wrong?"

    I've heard of walnut being toxic before! The husks around the walnuts themselves are very toxic!! Not just allergic!

[quote]...and that's the worst kind of killed.... [/quote]
You caught that! That was a joke from years ago, now I say it all the time unconsiously! I'll have to watch it.
Billy T38883.6935185185

_________________
Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

span. cedar dust, reddness, small blisters, itches for days, nothing respiratory though.

I have had no real reaction to either Coco or Pau Furro other than a slight tingle on the skin with Coco. but the bad news is if you have no issues now does not mean you will never have issues.

Hesh

In truth breathing fine dust of any sort, from memory I think the most dangerous range is between 1 to 10 Microns is a problem as this is fine enough to be breathed in but too coarse for your lungs to pass.

Two woods to Add to your list are Redwood and Western Red Cedar.

The other thing that all though not a wood makes me cringe everytime I read it on here is " I flooded it with CA" C.A. was designed to be used in tiny quantities and at a level of a drop or two the fumes given off by it are fairly harmless, but in quantity the fumes are highly toxic, and will pass through most open breathing apparatus. When used in industry they work either within a fume cupboard, or with powerful overhead extraction and closed circuit breathing system.

There are many alternative and much safer adhesives available, like some of the fast drying PVA's I would recomend to anyone that they make the change.

Steve-

If you go to Kathy Wingert's site here you can see that she is severely allergic to Cocobolo, her favorite tonewood. If you email her you might find out how she deals with continuing to build with it. She speaks a little about it at the bottom of the linked page. Good luck and be careful.

P.S. I don't know if anyone has said it yet but the reason sensitizers are so nasty is that you become more allergic and the reaction greater every time you are exposed to the sensitizer. If you aren't allergic to it, chances increase that you will be each time you expose yourself to it.

_________________
John Lewis
Wannabe builder owned by 2 crazy dachshunds

I spent a lot of time around cocobolo dust in Nicaragua and eventually realized that the nagging sore throat I had was due to it. Luckily it never got worse than a sore throat and some sneezing, but I don't know what would happen if I spent significantly more time with the wood. A shame because it's absolutely beautiful.

Here's the first of my Zepeda guitars:



Andrew

[QUOTE=John Lewis] Steve-

If you go to Kathy Wingert's site here you can see that she is severely allergic to Cocobolo......[/QUOTE] I spoke to Kathy - what a wonderful person she is. She helped me decide to stay away from cocobolo until I get a better dust handling system.

_________________
"An adventure is only an inconvenience rightly considered. An inconvenience is an adventure wrongly considered." G. K. Chesterton.

Last Saturday, our local PBS station ran a wood turning program. The host demonstrated the making of a gavel--in beautiful cocobolo! He turned and turned and turned some more, and his bare arms and face were covered in coco chips! He didn't put on a mask until he did his final sanding. All this, with no mention of allergy potential. Some guys have all the luck!