Official Luthiers Forum!

Everyone here knows that its been our policy from day 1 not to allow profane language here at the OLF.
I try to read as many threads as I can each day to keep up with those that insist on posting profanity in there comments.

PLEASE STOP!

This creates two issues,

First, I have to police this place which I really don't like to do, id rather enjoy the OLF like everyone else. I am not fond of putting ON the moderator hat.

Second, If I "edit" a bad word from one user and not the other someone will cry foul! When in fact, it is that I simply (SEEN ONE AND NOT THE OTHER) I will EDIT every bad word I come to in my daily travels at the OLF (regardless of user) but it is unrealistic to think that I will read every single word posted here.

Thanks
LanceK

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I would think that also means the "edited" words hey Lance? like R*dn#y (This is just my full name as not in insert a cus).

I agree, we can all be creative enough to use and choose words that are better at describing what we mean.

There are gray areas with this of course, and that can be hard, so maybe the best thought with this would be, if there is a check in your head weather or not it may be considered a cus word to some, don't type it.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

[QUOTE=Rod True]
There are gray areas with this of course, and that can be hard, so maybe the best thought with this would be, if there is a check in your head weather or not it may be considered a cus word to some, don't type it.[/QUOTE]

Yepper!

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Each of us should consider it a sign of respect to the other members of this forum to keep it clean. Just read what you just typed and imagine one of the members you value with their young kids or grandkids at their side reading that message. Then post your message.

_________________
53% of all statistics are made up on the spot
http://driftwoodguitars.blogspot.com/

AND... From what I've noticed concerning our membership, pretty much all of us are articulate enough to express ourselves without resorting to cussin'!

-Mark

_________________
Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
OR
Find me on Facebook

OLF is a great place to visit and participate in. The membership consists of many experienced and inexperienced luthiers with a variety of back rounds and education. Our ability to share and help each other without a lot of finger pointing or ridicule is what really makes this forum shine. I certainly agree that this forum has no place for unwanted words or behavior. I would urge all members to take an extra few seconds to review what they write to assure that it is acceptable, beneficial, cordial, and truly expresses ones thoughts. Written words can sometimes be interpreted a bit differently than the writer intended and even more so since the reader is unable to hear inflection or see body language. We have all seen people on this forum who have taken offense at a posting and others who have apologized for being offensive. Maybe with a few seconds of extra review and thought these situations could be avoided. I always write my entries in MS Word first and that allows me to review and think about what I have written before it is posted on OLF. I believe OLF is the best Luthiery forum on the internet. Its ability to provide an open, helpful, supportive, and non judgmental environment makes it shine. But it is the members who work within this framework and give of themselves that make OLF great. I do appreciate the help and information that I have received from the OLF members. You have allowed a member like me, who has no woodworking skills and very few musical skills, to ask questions and participate in threads freely. As a result, I have received the confidence to proceed into my first build. The members and suppliers have been great and I know that if (when) problems arrive I have a fabulous resource in OLF.

Philip

_________________
aka konacat

If you think my playing is bad you should hear me sing!
Practice breeds confidence and confidence breeds competence. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in practice.

Hey Lance,
I know with some software you can have preset words that will filter..like if someone says Hoover (you know the D word) then the software automatically replaces the wordy dird with darn, or anything of your choosing... Don't know if your software does that but most decent ones do.

_________________
John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

I knew putting "tortillas" in my sig would raise some hairs!

j/k! I don't recall seeing profanity here, and I'm really thankful for that. I
had no idea you were busy behind the scenes making that reality.
Thanks, Lance.

.....profanity is a lazy man's language. It only takes a second and very little effort to select the right words to express yourself without using profanity.

    We were a family of builders and contractors and shop workers so we were the exception to the norm. When we worked a construction site and Dad was the GC on the project, there was no room or excuse for profanity and it wasn't tolerated. Guys lost jobs over it no matter how valuable their skills were to the effort. Others weren't hired past their three or four day trial periods because they refused to think before they spoke.

    His thinking was..."If you're building a house, there will be neighbors who have wives and kids nearby who don't need to be exposed to what is just the result of a lack or respect and discipline as well as laziness in word choices."

   My Mom or any of the workers' spouses or children could visit any of our jobsites without having to hear it and the workers never seemed to ind once they got the idea.

   He didn't always have that idea concerning profanity when he was younger man, but respect came from others toward him alot more easily and quickly when he showed them the respect of using appropriate language as he grew up and showed a little more self control.

   It's a good thing to observe and can reveal alot of a person as it shows up in every day conversation.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

I run a little forum with the PHPBB2 software and it has a word-replace function that is pretty easy to use. Does this forum software have that? I bet it'd cover you 90-95% of the time as far as swearing goes, if your forum software has it.

I used it for a while on my forum to replace every instance of "lol" with "I am literally laughing out loud." :)

_________________
______________________________
Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

Get Billy to make a Sergicon waving his finger and saying "no-no", and have your software use it in place of any words you deem unfit, Lance.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Swearing is a very interesting part of our culture. Go to India, or Tailand or Asia, and you will find that the majority (of course there are exceptions) of people don't swear, even in there own language, it's considered disrespectfull. Now, there are cultures that use it as a way of expression, the military as Hesh pointed out, most professional sports players (and minor ones too) find it useful in expressing one's self. But this (the OLF) is not one of those cultures as I think most would agree. Self policing is the real key, so I ask that all of you hold me (and anyone else who is willing) to hold my feet to the fire with respect to cussin' (I don't think I've said anything disrespectful, but you never know).

One thing I find interesting in the pro-sports world is the difference between a player and an official. I was a minor hockey (and beer league) ref for 10 years and man were we verbally abused (with no retort by the way). At all of the "schools" and training courses I went to, we were always told to refrain from swearing at the players, even though they could let it fly at us. Well, that realy helped me to learn how to articulate myself in a heated situation. I'm a better person in my mind because of it.Rod True38884.6485416667

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

A Gentlemen never swears... until he hits his thumb with a hammer

Swear filters are a bandaid at best, they are easy to get around and you can still swear by just using astericks in all the right places. At work we maintain a database of 'objectionable' words that we want to filter out of peoples data they enter from the web and trust me at around 1000 words and phrases it's not nearly enough, people are creative and I've blushed more than once....

I think the best policy Lance is to assign a couple of trusted users with the ability to not only edit but delete threads that get out of control, that way it's not solely reliant on you... IMHO

-Paul-

_________________
-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

Kevin is right--profanity is lazy communication.

My mother wouldn't allow me to use it (man, that soap was foul tasting!), and I could charge my father a penny every time he used it (I made a haul one day sitting between my dad and his brother--they ran out of pennys and had to fork over nickels and dimes!). Knowing which words were "bad" has served me well in life. 'Course, we won't talk about my time in the Army!

Lance, I hope you sent a PM to every poster that required editing for swear words. I know that would be enough to remined me to watch my language. On the otherhand, I only recall one post recently that had the little [censored] icon and I don't remember any other swearing. Are you deleting the whole post?

[QUOTE=Sprockett] Swear filters are a bandaid at best, they are easy to get around and you can still swear by just using astericks in all the right places. [/QUOTE]

Right, I agree... But it would catch most of the more innocent slip-ups where it's typed without thinking about it too much, which I'm guessing is what usually happens. It's also completely arbitrary and saves the awkwardness of personal reprimands. It's not a 100% solution for sure, but I bet it'd do most of the heavy lifting.

I can't imagine any of the regulars here actively trying to get past a swear filter.

_________________
______________________________
Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

I am with you Todd. I frequently add swearing to my every day speech. I sort of think of it as a way to add verbial emoticons to my delivery.

However, I think Kevin is right, it is a lazy way to communicate. I don't have to think about "just" the right way to express myself, I can add a little swearing to shade the delivery and underscore my point. (It's not just a "good milkshake" it is a "pretty _ _ _ _ _ _ _ good milkshake" )

But I have the good sense and ability to turn it on and off when it is accepted.

This is just one of those places where we have decided that it will not be an accepted part of that community and we will not permit it. As far as Lance or I are concerned it is not a value statement, or us saying if you swear you are an unrefined brute -- it is just a matter of the decorum of the community. It is a simple and very easy rule to follow, I don't think it is all that much trouble to keep the language on a G rating.

... some of you have also mentioned the dirty word filter. Yes, we have one too. It works so well that if you have a swear word embedded in another it will change it. Sure, we could probably adjust the technology to make it work the way we want, but wouldn't it be simpler if we all just agreed not to do it.

Brock Poling38884.7717361111

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Brock, I had a swear filter on my email server for awile because I was getting pretty nasty spams. One thing I found out that it was rejecting Bruce D's emails because of his last name.
I agree with you that it's much easier to just not use bad language here. It's not the place. There are MANY MANY other forums where that is permitted. Use it there.

[QUOTE=WayneC] Each of us should consider it a sign of respect to the other members of this forum to keep it clean. Just read what you just typed and imagine one of the members you value with their young kids or grandkids at their side reading that message. Then post your message.[/QUOTE]

   Well said Wayne. It's very simple. Think of the children...

_________________
I'd like to be able to prove, just for once, that money wouldn't make me happy...

I'm an Australian, swearing is part of our national identity . But we mostly try not to do it infront of the women and children.

With years of practice it can be very satisfying.

[QUOTE=Brock Poling] you are an unrefined brute --
[/QUOTE]

Somebody call???

I am with Paul, there is a certain satisfaction in being able to apply a measured level of abusive expression in order to allow one's self to communicate effectively across the full spectrum of Aussie society.

Indeed profanity has an important roll in our day to day communications here in Australia. I know some guys that simply could not comprehend anything you were trying to say to them unless you punctuate with profanities at regular intervals.

It was mentioned that to a lot of cultures this sort of language is considered disrespectful and crass, therefore it's use is limited within those societies.
It is interesting to observe however when meeting one from such a culture when after newly migrated here to Australia and joining the workforce, just how quickly they embrace this particular part of the language.

A few years latter, having now assimilated into multicultural Australian society, most would have retained their traditional religions, culinary taste and custom and unless it's too (according to your level of sensitivity, please insert none offencive expressive word here) hot, even part of their traditional costume.

But now, despite their upbringing, most no longer consider the profanities as disrespectful or crass. Rather they have identified them as very important tools of expression without which they may face malnutrition and or dehydration at a BBQ and certain excommunication in the work place.

Indeed they have now learnt that in the spoken word, the exact same profanity can be deliver a dozen times and convey a dozen different moods and emotions from endearment to abuse depending on just how it was expressed. Profanities have therefore become their pigeon, their stepping stone that will allow them to learn to communicate with ever increasing fluency in the most difficult of all languages to learn.

But of course that is Australia and this is the OLF so when in Rome.... I am with Todd and Brock, even if profanities were acceptable here this is the internet and the written word, the benefits are lost, it simply will not deliver the desired effect.

More importantly profanity is just not wanted here, it is simple as that so lets not do it.

Cheers

Kim

    I hope I didn't come across as judging character through language or words spoken. That certainly wasn't my intention. I've known and worked with guys who had only a grade school level education, but were some of the most intelligent and hard working block and stone masons, carpenters and electricians you'll ever meet. Swearing was a very regular part of their communication, but they respected my Dad and were happy to abide by his wishes on the job sites.

    They understood what he meant about families living nearby enough to hear as voices were raised to be heard over hammering, saws, drills and the general distance between workers in construction. Our bunch had a great reputation for being considerate of those neighbors and loads of calls came for work simply because of it.

   It doesn't bother me at all if someone swears around me now, but I still won't tolerate it and address it quickly if my wife or kids are within earshot of it. I have several close friends who were career military men and they truly do have a master's control over the fine art of selecting and applying profanity to drive their point home. They can curl your eyebrows with their language if you're not careful. They're my friends and their character is of as high a caliber as anyone I've ever known. It's just a habit and they can be tough to break or reshape after a long time of yielding to them.

   I guess what my Dad lived and taught just stuck with me after hearing it so much day in and day out on the job for years. I've used my share of cuss words in my life, but have just chosen not to for years now. It's tough sometimes to maintain that discipline... especially when the hammer comes down on that thumb.

Sorry again,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars Kevin Gallagher38886.0848958333