Official Luthiers Forum!

First post but I read through the forum and this seems like a very cool, supportive and friendly place.

While I don't do any comercial work I have done some modification, repair and building in bass guitar and guitar for my own use.

I have had this idea brewing in my head for a bass guitar combining elements of a jazz guitar, semi hollow body and acoutic bass guitar and the Carvin Alan Holdsorth Fat Boy with a sight nod to Linc Luthier as well.

Basically (or should it be bassically?)it will be a full hollow body bass guitar with a jazz guitar bridge design but will have a solid twin beam running the length of the bass for a neck through design into a small tail block at the other end of the body.

My goals are to incorporate an acoustic bass sound with arched top and back but retain the strength and sustain of a neck through design. Strings will sit on a three point bridge with two lateral ends on the top and a center rearward point on the solid tail block. Strings will run through the center block for sustain but the bridge will rest on the top. If I can find affordable pieces long enough I will go for a 5 or 7 piece laminated neck with two or two pairs of adjoining laminates running all the way to the tail block but the top and back will be 100% free floating. Short of that option I may do a jazz guitar neck joint and just connect the neck joint and tail block with some hard dense wood and carbon graphite rods.

I may or may not put some F holes in or I may do a sound hole on the top shoulder by the neck like the Talyor AB-2 acoustic bass but other than that I want the top uncut for any pickups and free to resonate.

For pick up options I am considering is a combination of a jazz guitar pickup by the neck and some type of acoutsic pup like an I-beam or soundboard transducer.

So far I have only done solid body guitars so learning about top and back construction, bracing for a bass acoustic guitar and tuning a top for resonance before doing the final glue up will require some research.

I have found a great deal about acoustic guitar design and jazz guitar construction online but there is very little about acoustic bass guitar construction.

I know Taylor and Klein did alot of research on developing the beautifull Taylor bass but they only produced them for two or three years and are impossible to find.

Anyway specific questions you may be able to help me with are;

Q1 Do you know of any acoustic bass guitar or semi hollow body bass guitar or electric bass guitars designed to sound more acoutic (like the Rick Turner Renisiance bass guitar) bass reference material? Books, websites, articles, "white papers" etc.

Q2 I am debating the construction of the sides from either solid sides or thin acoustic instrument sides....

The Carvin Holdworth guitar is pretty much conceptualy a hollowed solid body with a top and back that can vibrate but the sides appear to be 1/2" to 1" thick.

I am thinking of buying a slab of rose wood or mahogany for the body and cutting out the design and center with tail block and I can save the center scrap for other wood working projects as well as a head stock veneer.
    
If I round the edges to make it more ergonomic and thin the edges width on the top and back to a similiar thickness of that for an acoutic guitar; do you think the top and back will be able to resonate enough to produce some acoustic tone? I don't expect any significant volume purely acoustic but I do want to get some real acoustic tone from some type of acoustic transducer.

I really don't want to buy a bending iron for one project to do the acoustic side construction.

Q3 Is this a completely crazy idea or possibly a good one?

While I have had the idea of a semihollow body design with a support system running from the neck heel to the tail board for a while I recently started playing bass with a very interesting group that plays a unique fusion of Bohemian gypsy, folk and jazz that conists of an acoustic guitar player and his daughter is an absolutely amazing violinist. They really seem to do well at renisiance festival but do plenty of other engagements. Some of the renisiance festivals pay very well but can sometimes be a little overboard about at least staying in "mid evil" character. Although the group is obviously being amplified through a PA the focus of attention on stage only reveals an acoustic guitar player and violinists and they use small wireless systems so if getting lost in the performance it would appear it is just an acoustic performance. I'm not sure if a completely solid body electric bass would upset the mid evil apple cart.

I own a Washburn AB-20 and I have tried the Tacoma, Martin, Guild El Capitan and the Micheal Kelly acoustic basses as well but none of them have the sustain I need and those bass phosphorus bronze strings go flat very fast. For the Washburn I just use the black nylon wound strings for a more upright thud when I need that sound.

Sorry for the long post and tall order but I think it could be done and sound pretty cool but I don't want to throw time, money and good tone wood down the drain finding five or ten construction techniques that don't work if you know what I mean?

I have an AB-1, and have found it to be worth every penny. When I received it, it was strung with Elixer acoustic bass strings. They sounded good, but when I restrung it with Thomasik Acousticores it really came to life. The acousticores will not work with a magnetic pickup they are for transducer type pickups only.
Your ideas sound workable. I would recommend bent sides rather than cut from a solid peice of wood. You can make a workable bending iron from a short length of pipe and a halogen light bulb, or even a propane torch for heat. Some of the builders use electric charcoal lighters for heat.
Make a full size drawing, and build your first one from wood that is nice but not too expensive. Consider it a training exercise. Don't forget to ask questions here as you go through the process.

Al

Thanks A Peebels,

If I could find a Taylor AB localy I would snap it up.

I don't think any made it to Oklahoma.

How is the sustain on the Taylor AB when plugged in?

For the stuff I am doing with this new group most of the songs alternate within the song with rhythmic changes from sustained whole notes with slides and into short syncopated rhythms.

If my fretless abilitites where up to snuff I would love to make it a fretless but with the violin being the lead voice in this ensemble I don't think I would risk throwing her off too much.

Scooter, are you another Okie? If so, what part of Oklahoma are you from? It'd be nice to get together with another OLFer without having to go all the way to Niagra Falls.

_________________
Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

"Scooter, are you another Okie? If so, what part of Oklahoma are you from? It'd be nice to get together with another OLFer without having to go all the way to Niagra Falls. "

Yes Sirree Bob I am residing in Edmond Oklahoma.

Send me a PM if you want to hook up some time although I don' refer to myself as a Luthiere but someone who likes to do some DIY and perhaps come up with something new.

I may be getting in over my head.

Hi Scooter B, I know nothing about basses, but I want to say I like your motto (but I had to read it like 5 times until I got it!). Welcome to the OLF!

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin

;)

Update on my own question...

If you were building a laminated five or seven piece bass guitar neck with an Ebony board; what woods would you recomend?

Remember my design will involve two solid beams probably carbon graphite reinforced running through a hollow body to get the sustain of an electric and have an acoustic top.

I was thinking Maple would be the best choice for the two layers that run the legnth of the neck and body but I don't think birds eye would look good with the stripes of the laminate so it would have to be some not so figured maple which should save in cost.

Woods I an thinking of so far to combine with the maple;
Rosewood
Wenge
Bubinga
Purpleheart

Thanks for a great forum.

Scooter,

Since you're building a lighter weight body, I'd say maple will make your neck much too heavy. You'll be fighting it every time you pick it up. I'd suggest using mahogany. To keep it light, use thin laminates. You could go with walnut or rosewood veneer, or, say 1/16" or 1/8" walnut or rosewood, bordered with a black veneer. Check with Bob at RC Tonewoods (see sponsors, above). He's got thin rosewood ready to go, and I bet he could provide you with other choices as well. Even going this way, your neck might be a bit heavier than the body, but much less so than with maple and other heavy hardwoods.

Yes, my semi has a maple laminate neck and is definitely neck-heavy, although the body is pretty much hollow so I guess it would be slightly less so with wood running the full length.

_________________
Pete
http://www.petewoodmanguitars.com

[QUOTE=LouisianaGrey] Yes, my semi has a maple laminate neck and is definitely neck-heavy, although the body is pretty much hollow so I guess it would be slightly less so with wood running the full length.
[/QUOTE]
Peter, as I understand it, he's not planning a full solid block through the body. That's why I was concerned about the neck weight.

BTW, that's a nice looking bass. Tell us more about it--are the plates carved?

The neck on my AB-1 is made from a single peice of imbuia with the headstock grafted on in the standard Taylor manner. There is no heel as it is bolted to the neckblock like a bolt-on solidbody.
My current preference for laminated neck conatruction is outer lams of walnut or mahhogany with curly maple or purpleheart for the center lam.
One other thing about the AB-1, lack of sustain is definately not a problem. In fact many times I find myself using the heel of my hand to mute slightly at the bridge to reduce sustain.

Al

[QUOTE=A Peebels] One other thing about the AB-1, lack of sustain is definately not a problem. In fact many times I find myself using the heel of my hand to mute slightly at the bridge to reduce sustain.

Al[/QUOTE]

Color me green with envy...

I jsut found out Taylor has a new thinline Acoustic Bass Guitar with the T5 line....

I have to be honest, Carlton, and say that I cheated. The body is an old Hofner guitar body from the 1960s and it's pressed laminate. I put some extra bracing under the bridge between the top and the back to cope with the string tension and it seems to be holding up well. Carving plates is a job I hate and I'll do almost anything to avoid it! A few years back a shop in England was selling a lot of parts they'd picked up in the old Hofner factory in Germany. I got a couple of semi bodies which were unfinished, so I've also got the same body in a cutaway version, unbound but with the binding channels cut already. This one was still stuffed with a German newspaper from (if memory serves) 1968.

I made the bass because I wanted something that looked non-standard. I sometimes play bass in a covers band and my wife was always telling me it was a poor advertisement to play a bass I hadn't made myself.

_________________
Pete
http://www.petewoodmanguitars.com

[QUOTE=LouisianaGrey] I have to be honest, Carlton, and say that I cheated. [/QUOTE]
If you turn junk into something useable, it's not cheating--it's resuscitation! Good work! CarltonM38888.6841319444

Hey Peter, nice recovery my friend!

To Scooter B, welcome to the friendliest forum there is, you will get all the answers you need here and more!

Enjoy!

Carlton,

You may have saved me some major grief. I had not even thought about balance and neck heavy issues.

I am thinking I may put a thicker heavier slab of wood in the tail that the neck struts will terminate to and check it for balance with most of the hardware attached before I glue up any of the acoustic body.

Good save

[QUOTE=Scooter B] I am thinking I may put a thicker heavier slab of wood in the tail that the neck struts will terminate to and check it for balance with most of the hardware attached before I glue up any of the acoustic body. [/QUOTE]
Good idea. In fact, if you can weigh your wood when its all shaped, but not assembled (except for the neck), you'll know just how much extra to add to the body, if any, before you close it up. Of course you'll have to estimate how much to subtract from the neck weight and add to the body for the neck extentions. Good luck, and take pictures of your process if you can.

New question regarding pickup selection.

I was looking at the DTAR products with the Timberline and the Eclipse on board preamp/mixer and a Seymour Duncan Benedetto neck pick up.

Will the Timberline under the saddle transducer work with a jazz guitar style floating bridge? So far I have only seen them on acoustic bass guitars that have a top glued bridge. DTAR does make the top mounted sound spot transducers I could use instead.

I am wanting the strings to sit on the jazz bridge but go through some slots in the top and through the solid tail piece for the neck through sustain qualities but acoutical compatible bridge design.

You guys are great!