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I just realized there's a Harbor Freight store near me in Sacramento. Noticed this 7" X 41" Jointer on sale for $219. I "need" a jointer...

Anyone have any experience with National Machinery? I'm concerned that's too cheap of a price...

Looks like a nice one! I just wonder about the 1HP motor....maybe thats why its so cheap! I think 1.5HP or 2 would be more suitable. I bought a 1.5 HP from Sears for $249 and it works great but the one from Harbor Freight sure looks nicer...peterm38887.9295486111

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Peter M.
Cornerstone Guitars
http://www.cornerstoneukes.com

I don't want to rain on anything here, but be wary buying something as critical to setup as a jointer from Central/HF...if you have some ability as far as tweaking and machining you may can "doctor" it up to work well for you...if you're wanting to go imported and get a nice tool for the $$ Grizzly is worth checking out...just my humble opinion!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

[QUOTE=L. Presnall] I don't want to rain on anything here... [/QUOTE]

Thanks for the advice! That's what I want to know. I'm pretty good at tweaking but don't want to spend money on something thats going to frustrate me / ruin wood.

I hope I'm not hijacking this thread with my first post,but since I was thinking of buying a Central Machinery drill press from a friend, I figured this would be a good to ask.Is it critical to have high quality drill press or would a CM drill press work for a part timer. I plan on using it with a robo sander also.Its 3/4 HP.Thanks

John

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John S.

I have bought a bench belt sander from Harbour freight. It was a piece of junk. It would not track right no matter what I did. If you have the money stick to the name brands you wont regret it. If you don't have the money start saving or get a second job. In the long run you will be happier with quality tools. Remember this you get what you pay for. In my oppinion everything at harbour freight is junk. They are the equivalent to the dollar stores in my mind.They are chiep because they skimp on quality. I have had c-clamps bend just from hand pressure. I am a stong guy but I aint no superman. Check out Grizlly.com they have some good machinery at good prices and the owner is a amateur luthier. So he's got to be a good guy.

I have purchased and do use some things from HB, and just looked at the planer being discussed. I have to agree with LPresnall on his comments. I currently don't have a planer and really don't see them as a "must have" piece of equipment. I personally like to hand plane my joints.

John487

I have a Central Machine Drill Press that one of my kids gave me for Christmas. I use it and it works well on a number of jobs, but it is small and I have a larger much better made DP for most precision needs and thicknessing.

A while back I did a lot of research on the HF jointers on newsgroups and such. I finally came to the conclusion that I should spend a little more and go with a Delta. I heard that the HF jointers were plaqued with warped tables and such from poor castings. Don't get me wrong, I like HF tools in some cases but when it comes down to something that requires tight tolerances it's best to spend a little more for quality.

if money is an issue youm should sdriously mine the used tool market. good quality stationary tools are very durable and when used by hobbyists are seldom worn out. my unisaw is a '53 model which cqame out of an old cabinet maker's shop, whilst my walker-turner bandsaw acquired at auction is of a similar vintage, and their quality is of the sort it is almost impossible to find now. i know a north carolina luthier who bought, or should i say stole, his 20" delta bandsaw from his school board for $200, but then it did need a new drive belt.

just this week i saw advertised in our local sale paper an 8" rockwell delta jointer, 14" bamdsaw and a scroll saw for $300 the lot. needless to say they didn't last long.

there are good bargains to be had if you look hard, and you will be buying quality...

I have yet to find a precision ground surface on a HF product that was true. They look at me funny when I walk in with a 24" engineer's level block but it saved me twice. Once I looked at small mill I was thinking about sinking $500+ into and also that very jointer. The jointers bed would have needed major honing and re-alignment of the blade drum, carrier (what ever you want to call it). A similar issue with the mill table in relation to the spindle.

Thanks Guys! Well... to the delight of my wife, you've talked me out of it! (actually she fully supported my buying the jointer, might not support me spending more money!! )

The aftermarket is an excellent idea as well. I'm a regular peruser of craigslist, will look around some more.

I need a jointer for some furniture but also for laminate necks - I imagine it's the best way to ensure a super-flat surface for glue-up.

Also - peterm - I'm not anywhere near the expert about the subject but most Craftsman products advertise "developed horsepower" which is not the same measurement as other tools advertise. Something about measuring what it takes to stop the motor vs. actual torque or some such. Just to confuse you further!

I just went to craigslist, typed in jointer, and found a bunch on sale. Don't know if these are near you or not, but you get the idea.

http://www.craigslist.com/cgi-bin/search?areaID=1&subAreaID= 0&query=jointer&catAbbreviation=sss

On the motor issue, several years ago the government allowed manufactures to state the potential hp of motors vs. the mean hp delivered. For about five years it was hard to tell just what you were getting on a consumer grade product like Craftsman. Recently many of the more reputable manufactures have started stating the "developed horsepower" as well as the “potential horsepower”. The difference is "Potential" is the max horsepower achieved by the motor with no load at all and at ideal conditions no matter its duration, even if it is for only 1 millisecond, i.e. this motor could possibly produce "X" horsepower (maybe ). Developed horse power on the other hand is the mean average horsepower delivered to the drive train with no added load. Much closer the horsepower you actually get to work with. Now higher end tools have for the most part always been honest about the motor ratings. But not true on consumer grade tools. But like Craftsman many are beginning to fess up.MichaelP38888.5887847222

So Michael, to make this thread wander a little further, you're saying developed horsepower is a better measure of a motors overall power? Good to know. I looked up horsepower on Wikipedia but didn't get much on "developed". Thanks!

[QUOTE=rlabbe] I just went to craigslist, typed in jointer, and found a bunch on sale. Don't know if these are near you or not, but you get the idea.

http://www.craigslist.com/cgi-bin/search?areaID=1&subAreaID= 0&query=jointer&catAbbreviation=sss [/QUOTE]

Yep, there are a lot in the SF Bay area, I get down there on a regular basis. Quite a few in the Sac area as well - closer to me. Patience...

Yes. What I am saying is most consumer grade (not proffessional shop grade) power tools list hp by potential or peak hp. This is a falasy rating. The developed hp rating is the mean average hp the motor will achive with a full voltage supply and no load on the tool. Potential, or often called "peak" hp is the best capabilities of the motor on its own, not what it supplies through the drive train. Potential or Peak hp exspecially on hand tools is often 20-30% higher than the actual hp delivered to the tools drive train at normal house hold voltage. Developed hp is a messure of the mean average hp delivered to the drive train of a tool by means of independent testing. These two terms are generaly only seen on consumer grade tools and only one or the other. So Developed hp is a better measure of the efective hp of a tool than the potential or peak hp.

always look at the max amps the motor consumes. if you look at a craftsman compressor motor for example compared to a   quality baldor, leeson or duerr of the same hp rating/voltage you will find the better motors will be consuming more power for their rating because it is a real working rating, not theoretical, unrealistic "mbe". crazymanmichael38888.8312268518

    The best bang for the buck I found is Grizzly tools. They are better than the tools at HF and sears. Also the service is pretty good. I don;t like the motors but I can say from experience they do stand behind thier stuff. Also the Shop fox line is good.
     If you can afford it you can't go wrong with bridgewood at wilke.com
     I have used alot of Grizzly stuff and they have a store about 70 miles from me so I do get thier often .
   You will find the tolerance tighter and the castings more uniform
Buy the best you can afford. Often cheap means junk.
john hall
blues creek guitars

Talking of craftsman it a shame what happened to a once great tool brand. The quality has been going downhill for years. Ever since Stanley stopped making their hand tools and went to the lowest bidder the quality is not anywhere near where they used to be. I can only imagine what will happen now that K-mart bought out Sears. The store in my area stoped selling tools, electronics and appliances. It now looks like a giant Martha Stewart K-Mart

I agree with John, I have had great luck with the Grizzley tools and equipment. Prices are very reasonable

Mike
White Oak, Texas

Mant of the competing brands of chinese imported tools are made from the same castings, and externally they appear pretty much the same. But the difference is in the finishing. A freind of mine bought a cheap benchtop mill, and another had a more expensive version with a different brand name. The cheaper one started moving very roughly shortly after he bought it, and we opened it up to repair. All of the castings were still full of the molding sand. The bearings and leadscrews were all contaminated causing it to jam up. After complete disassembly, cleaning, reassembly, and adjustment It worked much better, but never as good as the identical looking more expensive mill.

Al

I was at my local Lowe's about 3 weeks maybe a month ago and saw a Delta 6" Jointer for $315.00. I didn't think that was too bad of a price. Some of the HF stuff has some fairly rough casting and sand pockets, and a lot of off center drilling.

Armed with all this recent advice, I might just take a trip to this local HF store armed w/ my 24" straghtedge, a camera and WITHOUT my credit card (just in case I get weak). Interested to see if it's the K-Mart of tool stores or what.

Take a good square block with also to meassure side to side flatnessMichaelP38890.5335416667

      Castings aren't the same , though to the untrained eye you may thing so. I am not sure if I spell this right but meehanite castings are what you want. Cast iron alloys can range from pure crap to semi crap to good to great.
      HF don't have good castings.If you are just joining a 4 inch joiner is perfect for tops and backs. The most important thing is also the knive. HSS can range in many alloys and hardness see if you can get air hard or heat treat to RC58 , tool steel are best if you can find them.
    Grizzy has a spring on the heads that make alignment of a new set of knives alot easier. Take a square and check the fence also. Qualtiy will stand out to the trained eye once you seen enough.
   Look at the surface , you want to see ginding not circular blanchard marks. Flat surface grinding is often more accurate and less latering to the heat treating.
    Good luck.
john
PS be sure the bearings are sealed