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Hey Everyone,

I know there are lots of beginners joining up here at the OLF. And, probably many more who are lurking. So thought I would just share some of the trials and tribulations of the my beginners story.

I have ruined 7 guitar tops in the last 3 weeks! I am a tonewood sellers dream come true. From cutting completely through the top trying to inlay the rosette, to dropping the completed top on the cement floor and breaking off 1/4 of the side, to adjusting the thickness down to well under 2 mm on the lower bout, to cleaning up the rosette with a scraper and gouging a 1 mm deep crease in the top. And, finally last night, when I had put in my 1st wood rosette, and was feeling so good, until I realized I had trimmed the top using the template outline I had traced on the top and not the back, and this put the soundhole about 2 inches too far up.

So, I start on top number 8, and still on guitar number 1 (not including the kit). I am beyond feeling stupid, that was at about number 4, and beyond getting angry, that was at about numer 5, and beyond crying, that was number 6, last night at number 7 it was just a sigh, and a short toss into the garbage can.

I guess carving a lute rose will not be on the schedule any time soon!!

Jeff

Jeff- this is a great example of why so many experienced builders recommend using less expensive woods for your first guitar or two. The Fancy woods are sexy and seductive and you want to reach for them early on, but just consider the money you would have wasted if all 7 tops were Addy! OUCH!

Only advise I can give has something to do with your nose and a grinding stone


Lance

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I say yes and you are reading a post from him. :)

Hey Jeff.... no disrespect intended but have you tried taking a class? Several people offer 1 - 2 week classes and I think they are well worth the investment.

It seems to me that it could help shave off a lot of investment in mistakes and help you get some immediate gratification.

Someone once told me that "your mistakes are tuition." That certainly has been the case with me. I learn a lot more from mistakes than from things going perfectly.

But seriously, I would look into a class... I built my first acoustic that way and I am very glad I did.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Jeff,
I am sure you mad all this up to make the rest of us beginners feel good.

[QUOTE=Jeff Doty] Hey Everyone,


I guess carving a lute rose will not be on the schedule any time soon!!

Jeff[/QUOTE]

Jeff, you've got lots of spare top wood now to practise on, I should get straight out there and carve a lute rose on some of that redundant wood, it's very therapeutic!. I'll send you a scale drawing if you like!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

jeff

i second the post by colin; use those ruined tops for practice cutting your rosette channels. each time start anew with your tolsd unsetup, adjust them, do a cut, test the fit, do it again. by the tine you finish you should have cut 25 channels or so. make it old hat.

and i promise you, once it is a well established procedure, you will still ruin the odd plate or two periodically. and don't ask me how i know this!!

michael mcclaincrazymanmichael38432.4296180556

Jeff, don't sweat it too much. We've all been there before. Been there, done that, got the tee-shirt.

I will second Brock's advice about taking a class. It can take a lot of time off the learning curve. It will also boost your confidence after completing a whole guitar in a weeks time.

Hang in there buddy....Dave Rector38432.4318287037

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Dave Rector
Rector Guitars

Yikes...! Yes, by all means take a class.

It also sounds like maybe you're not thinking clearly when you're working. Also sounds like you're rushing?

A couple thoughts:
1. Never work when you're tired.
2. Always work thoughtfully and slowly.
3. Measure twice, cut once.
4. Always do a test run on scrap before applying a power tool to a piece of wood.
2. Work carefully, methodically, and (again) slowly.
3. Excercise patience at all times. Think things through carefully.

This all may sound redundant, but we can never hear this stuff enough.

Sorry for your losses... but don't give up!
Don Williams38432.4398032407

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Absolutely Don, the most valuable resource in my modest shop is the box of scrap wood under the bench.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

don

you're perceptive. when i tend to do sillies is when i'm tired and in a rush. the thought processes, what few i can still manage, seem to be too easily derailed and the errors multiply.

brings back memories of old saws from grands and uncles etc.; like "better not done now if not done correctly", and "if you can't find the time to do it carefully now how are you going to find the time to do it again". those words come back to haunt me when my need for speed from time to time leads to disaster.

michael mcclain

[QUOTE=Don Williams] A couple thoughts:
1. Never work when you're tired.
2. Always work thoughtfully and slowly.
3. Measure twice, cut once.
4. Always do a test run on scrap before applying a power tool to a piece of wood.
2. Work carefully, methodically, and (again) slowly.
3. Excercise patience at all times. Think things through carefully.
[/QUOTE]

These getting printed and posted in my shop!   

Eric

Jeff,

Don is indeed right. Slow the processes down and MAKE yourself think through what you're preparing to do right before you do it. I've only built one guitar but approached it's construction this way & several times caught myself preparing to make a major foolish (destructive & expensive) move. Of course, it took four months of spare time to build the thing.

If you're building for a living & have crazy deadlines, then you can't slow beyond a certain point, but if you're mostly trying to hone your skills & make beautiful instruments on a small personal level, then lengthen the process. You'll enjoy it longer too. Future good luck man,

Skip

Don, I'd measure at LEAST 4 times: measure twice, then make sure the measurement you laid it is the measurement you want, then measure AGAIN, and then approach the wood with tools.

Working when tired is bad, rushing is even worse, and not planning things out full size, on paper, ain't smart. Do test cuts on scrap to make sure they fit right if we're talking rosettes or soundholes. Mark out EVERYTHING, lightly, on the top immediately: centreline, outline, soundhole centre, and go from there. I rough-thickness the top, do the outline, then the rosette, then sand the top clean, and thickness it to where I want it and move to bracing. I find rosette levelling can take off a little more wood than intended if the top's brought to exact thickness before it's all installed..

Jeff
AFter making over 70 guitars I am still looking for the time when I don't make at least one mistake in the construction. To be sure the mistakes are becomming less and less significant but there they are nontheless.

Did I ever tell you about the time when I glued down a bridge backwards with the pinholes facing the sound hole. To make matters worse I drilled out the holes to install the pins. No recovery from that, required a complete new top, and I was about to string it up.

One thing that I'm trying to learn is to look at what I'm doing. When I work on a rosette, I look at the whole top before I do anything permanant. Stand back and look at the whole thing and you will avoid the silly mistakes like putting side position markers on the wrong side of the neck.

It's been a hard lesson to learn, however. Once I was making two mandolins and I was using pre-slotted fingerboards. I trimmed the board at the nut position which is just another slot and then I forgot to grab the other board and trimmed it again. I ended up with a board that was one full fret too short. The weird things was the the proper fretboard was sitting on the table less than a foot away and clearly had not been trimmed.

Jeff, hang in there. It took me a full year for my first guitar. My son even sat on the top and made it into a three piece top. It's still on that guitar and after 12 years sounds great.

Don't let any of these guy know but I still have a few top under the workbench that did not make it.

my first guitar still isn't finished 10+ years later. I'm taking my time, making sure I'm not about to screw anything up.

I was looking at a newbie post on Luthierforum.com, and that guy seemed worse than you. Hope it wasn't you.

Jeff,

I've been woodworking off and on since I was a little kid. Yesterday I superglued a board to my hand. Man that hurt! I've always thought that the more mistakes we make the faster we learn. Good advice in the responses to your post. The more you learn from others mistakes the better but the lessons don't seem to stick until I make them myself.

Joe Volin

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for all the encouragement and suggestions. If I had to do it over, I probably would consider professional instruction. I have no doubt it is money well spent.

But really! I know I am not the sharpest tool in the shed, but I am reasonably intelligent, and not afraid to educate myself. I just seem to have run into a "perfect storm" of dumb luck, Murphys law, and common beginners mistakes. And, I have learned a lot, even if it has been a bit painful on the ego and the pocket book.

Good news is, I still have 10 fingers, and I am not giving up!

Thanks again.

Jeff

Jeff,

Wow, that sucks.   No two ways about it.

I make lots of mistakes too, and we all do. Here's a suggestion for any woodworker: devote 25% of your thinking to what you are trying to do, and 75% of your thinking to all the ways you might screw it up.

For example, you mention that you used the pattern you drew on the back of the soundboard and ended up with the soundhole 2" too high. Well, of course you did! Whenever you have the "wrong" pattern on the other side, you will inevitably use it. So in my shop I have a standard practice: When I draw a pattern incorrectly, it ALWAYS gets removed completely --- sanded out, erased, completely scribbled out, or if nothing else will work, burnt with a blowtorch. Because I know that if I don't completely destroy it, I will use it. And then I sit down and think of all the other mistakes I might make and how to prevent them.

I still make lots of mistakes, but not nearly as many as I otherwise would.

This weekend I did a wonderful binding job on my latest guitar. I couldn't have been happier with it.

Until I looked again and realized that I hadn't put in an end graft. Doh!

So last night I carefully cut out a slot for it with chisels, and after about 100 trial fits I think I got the end graft in there nice and snug. Sure would have been easier without the binding in the way, and so much for mitered purfling. (Yah, I could have still mitered the purfling, but didn't want to press my luck)

Your making no more mistakes than us other beginners. On my first I cut the slot for the end graft before I routed the binding and purfling channels. Cut a real nice half moon in the Sitka top. A little creative inlay and I have a one of a kind guitar. I think it is our enthusiasm about building that trips us up and we need to restrain our excitement and take our time. I'm keeping a log of all the mistakes folks post just so I can occasionally review them so I don't repeat them. Hang in there.   

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA