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Every time it comes the time to recrown frets, I dread the process.

I have one of LMI's straight fret files -- fine serrations on on one edge, coarse on the other -- and I have a Gurian file, which I bought from either LMI or Stewmac.

Neither is any fun to use.

I suspect the regular diamond files that Stewmac sells are really nice, but they sure are spendy. I've balked over ordering one so far. Why? Cuz I'd have to order two. I use one size of fret wire on all my builds, but if I want to have a regular diamond file with two different grits, I can't, since Stewmac has decided that each file should have two different fret widths instead of two different grits for a single fret width.

But I see where Stewmac also offers a
dual grit diamond file, shaped kinda like the Gurian, to boot. Price isn't quite so steep, either.

I'm thinking this file might be a relatively economical answer to my crowning woes.

But I thought I'd toss this out to the OLF Mind, and see what you folks prefer.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Yes I use the Gurian type that I got from stew mac. I don't like it much either. I have heard the stew mac diamond fret files are great. I almost splurged and bought them one day but I came to my sense's. I have looked at the one you linked but I don't like that either. The thing is I find the shape of my Gurian is its uncomfortable to me. I might have to break down and buy a set of their diamond file's.

Hesh, I tend to agree about the angle feeling somewhat awkward, although I have gotten used to it pretty much. The one thing I like about the Gurian shape is it is a little easier to crown the frets over the soundboard (classicals, donchknow) than with a straight file.

I had a duhhh moment as well tonight. I got the bright idea to clamp the guitar in my parrot vise (using the angle jaws of course), instead of just struggling with it sitting on my work bench. All of a sudden, it was much easier to crown the frets, once the guitar wasn't trying to move around anymore.   

Best,

Michael
Michael McBroom38900.9570833333

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Well!! I guess... this is what you asked for!!!


Sorry Bud! I couldn't resist!!

(I know, I know, I know I can't be having ALL the fun! I'll post, I'll post)

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

[quote]Good job and I deserved it that's for sure.[/quote]

It may be a good job but you deserve much better treatment than this, Bud!

    I'z start'in to feel the Zootman effect real bad! It's like Voodoo! I'll have to post a pic to assuage this guilty conscience!   

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)

Yes yes, post a pic of that bandit mug o yours! I dare ya! Pok pok pokak!

Hesh,
The one that you don't like is actually the one that I like the most. It works over the body great, and it has both grits needed. I guess to each his own. However, it does work better if you pull it out and turn it around to switch grits Michael, good luck finding the crowner of your dreams.
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

We discussed this some time ago and Wade described the ones he makes usng an offcut of the fingerborad channelled out to crowned fret dimensions with 320 grit glued into the channel. They are the product of genius.

Wade's fret crowning file

Now I'm back on making stuff that needs metal frets, I'm going to be making some of these!

ColinColin S38901.1937731481

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

    I got a crowning file from Martin when I was out for training. Though it is simialr in design to gurian , the cut is better and worls well. Also if you get the chance you may want to try a ( PILLAR FILE ). I use these in my trade , they are a very fine cut file about 3/8 wide and they have a smooth edge.
     Fretting isn't that bad once you find the tools to match your technique.
   I also use a simialr thing to what Colin showed. Stained Glass suppliers have them for dressing the edges of glass at afforadable prices. Though I can't rememeber what they called it you can find them in craft stores.
   john hall

I use the curved offset diamond file from Stewmac, unless you really are doing something wrong you will only need the 300 grit. It cut my fret work time in 1/2. It looks weird but is comfy.
Hope this helps,
Evan

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http://www.NewYorkGuitarRepair.com

I use stewmac's curved diamond fret file. My only complaint is having to have to clear it often. It seems to clog very fast. I have one of their small wire file brushes and it works great on the file.

I don't know why you guys are having problems re-crowning. I don't spend anymore than 15 minutes and get great results with these files. I then follow up with Micro mesh. Check out Erlewines Fretting videos or ask Frank Ford. I've seen Frank completely re-crown in less than 5 minutes. The idea is to leave a small, very thin flat on the fret( I use a red magic marker to show/tell me what's going on)). If you are sawing away trying to get a whole "new" perfectly round fret you are wasting your energy and time.

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

Dave,

You make a good point. If you file below the slight "flat" that is left, you also run the risk of filing the fret down below its height even with the rest of the frets.

I like the red marker idea. Shoulda thought of that one too.

Thanks for the link, Colin. I have a tool similar to that one that I have used, but I didn't glue the sandpaper into the slot. I just wrapped it around the tool and held it in place. Problem is with the one I have is it tends to file a blunt, flattened curve into the top of the fret. It's much faster, true, but not maintaining a precise crowned shape bothers me. Maybe if I glue a strip in place, forcing it into the right contour using a fret as a caul, it might work better.

Based on Tracy and Evan's feedback, I think the "cheapo" Stewmac file might speed things up for me.

Best,

Michael
Michael McBroom38901.4616550926

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Same as Dave here, and I love it! They are a bit spendy though...

-Mark

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Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

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Michael,
Maybe it is the technique that is causing you some problems. I seem to get faster results if I rotate it side to side as I move it forwards and backwards. It seems to round over faster, so each fret is less than 1 minute for BOTH grits. Hope that helps. Also, Evan had a good point... depending on what you are using to level your frets, will cause you to use a course or finer grit to crown. I use a simple mill file which is too course, and that is why I need to use the courser grit first, but I used a finer grit to level my frets, I could just use the 300 grit to start with. I think because of my inexperience, I'm not very good at getting good seated frets, which then causes me to do more leveling than I should. Since joining the CO Luthiers group, and recently seeing how Scott Baxendale, Michael Bashkin, and Edward Dick do it, I think I now have a better idea how to do it. But I don't have anything to fret since I've seen them do it!
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Tracy,

Thanks for your response. Regarding my technique, yes, I can assure you that it was causing me problems. As I mentioned in one of my above posts, it finally dawned on me -- last night, in fact, after I'd posted the message that started this thread -- to put the guitar in a vise, rather than setting it on a no-slip pad with a rabbit-ear neck rest and having to hold it down with one hand while I filed with the other. That one thing cut the time it takes me to recrown 10-string frets (think about 4" long) at least in half.

I use a mill bastard file that has what I would consider medium serrations. So the marks it puts on the frets are not that deep. I use the coarse edge of the LMI file to speed up the crowning process and then go back over it with the fine edge to smooth things out some. Dave mentioned the use of Micromesh when doing a final polish. I haven't tried that yet, but I think I will. I've been using 600 grit paper, followed up with 0000 steel wool.

Regarding getting well-seated frets, I have found that what works best for me is to start the tang on one end and hammer it down, working from that end across the width of the fingerboard. Because of the width of a 10-string neck, but more because I have to put a significant contour in the bass side of the fingerboard for relief for the large bass strings, I cannot use a fret press system, so I still hammer them in.

This heavy contour also requires that I have to recut the frets on the bass side. The guitar I'm finishing up right now is the first one I've built where I got to use the fret slotting blade that Shane has made available to us. Besides drastically speeding up the process of cutting the slots, what I really like about it is the consistent slot depths. I have a piece of fret wire that I've bent into sort of a hockey stick shape, and at the base of the wire/stick, I've filed the little "teeth" off the tang. I use this to check slot depth, running it across the fingerboard. But I also used it to check the blade's cutting depth on a piece of scrap wood. So after recutting the fret slots on the bass side, I use this little tool to make sure I've cut to the right depth. I find this works great because it minimizes the number of tang slots I have to fill on the edges of the fingerboard.

Invariably, hammering in frets, even when using a nylon-faced hammer, results in very slight height differences. I have a tool similar to Stewmac's Fret Rocker that I use to check fret height before I begin filing. I mark the high areas with a pencil on the fb, next to the high spots, then begin filing. During the filing process, I continue to check fret height differences with this tool, and once everything is even, I stop, and move on to crowning. I've found that by using the rocking tool in this way I've susbtantially reduced the amount of leveling that I used to do. I also check them again after crowning, and sometimes will still find a small spot or two that are still a touch high, but I just use the crowning tool at those areas (the Gurian one is good for this) until the tool no longer rocks.

Best,

MichaelMichael McBroom38901.5702314815

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Live to Play, Play to Live

Michael,
That is basically what I do too. But one of the things I didn't know early on was why I would get a few high spots after the final leveling and crowning. Found out that the correct way to fix this is to try to re-seat the fret as opposed to just filing the hump out. Seems that my frets were popping up in some places for whatever reason. My guess is that I did not clean the slots out good enough before starting to fret. So a good tip I learned was to try to push the fret down with the fret rocker using a good amount of force. If it goes down, then you will need to get it clamped and seated correctly before moving on.

Oh, and also, I used to use the micro mesh pads all the way to 12000 grit, then polish. I found out later that this is way overkill unless you like shiny shiny frets. I just found that 320/400/600/ then 0000 steel wool as I'm rubbing the whole fretboard produced the same results without the shine and the extra 3 hours it took me! So less work is better for me.
Good luck!
Tracy

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Tracy,

Thanks for the tips. I push down on my fret rocker pretty hard too if I find a high fret, but so far it hasn't made any difference.

I can usually spot an area where a fret hasn't seated all the way by sighting down the fret using moderate magnification (+2 reading glasses). This means one of two things: I haven't cut the slot deep enough or I didn't clean it out well enough prior to seating the fret. Usually, it's the latter. If I can use a clamp and cauls and the fret still won't seat, I pull it out, check the slot, clean or cut, and install a new one.

Best,

Michael

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Live to Play, Play to Live

I color the tops of the frets with a blue sharpie, then I use a flat file that has
the edges beveled and polished. I forget where I got
it, but it similar to the LMII Grobet file.

Then I use a three corner file that I made that's like the Stew-Mac 1600, or
1601.

I also use the sanding sticks with a few different grits.

I follow that up with 0000 steel wool and a dremel buffing wheel.

I really dislike the fret crowing files that have the fret contour built in.David Schwab38902.6989814815

I mostly use the Stew Mac straight diamond file. I believe it is #5051. The handle makes it a little tougher to do the frets over the guitar's top, so I tend to file these frets working from one side at a time. I like to press in my frets when possible because I feel it seems more consistent and requires less leveling. I follow up with the Stew Mac 24" leveling beam using 320 grit Stikit paper. I use a blue Sharpie for highlighting the fret tops before leveling and again before crowning.

I level my pressed-in frets with a carpenter's level stood on edge with worn 150 grit sandpaper stuck on it. Then I use a curved Stew-mac diamond file. Mine is still going strong after about 75 fret jobs. Then I sand the frets using 320 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper and go directly to an 8" diameter buffing wheel with gray compound. This brings them up to a high gloss. The whole job takes about an hour.