Official Luthiers Forum!

there is a luthier in Cinci named David Schneider. From skimming the article about him, he spent an afternoon with James D'Aquisto who showed him the "Circle of Sound" bracing pattern. Curious what that is?
David Schneider home page

article about him

My recollection was that D'Aquisto's flattops weren't as highly thought of as his archtops, but of course these things change even if the guitars don't.

does that guitar REALLY have a $30,000 price tag on it?

Wow....

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Ha! Here's a quote from that page:

"David feels that handmade instruments are nearing extinction."

Ha! The whole thing's a boatload of BS. I like how these characters come out of the woodwork every now and then and try to "market" stuff. Circle of sound? Geeze.......

If he can sell them for $30K, more power to him. There are a few classical makers out there that can get that kind of price. Olson gets about $12,500 for his guitars which is about what Sergei De Jonge and Linda Manzer get as well.

If luhiers could sell guitars for what it cost to make them and to make a living, The prices would be in that range. But, Collings, Santa Cruz, and other low volume shops can be bought retail for around $3000. Most musicians can't hear the difference and would be wasting their money if they spent more. The market rules.

Sure, but Olson, Manzer, and the like don't have to make up marketing BS to sell theirs. I doubt he's selling any at all at anything near that price.

Buyers are well aware of BS when they see it. There may be a well meaning millionaire's wife out there shopping for a gift for her guitar-playing multi-millionaire husband, I guess, who can get fooled by the BS and buy one, but, ummm, I bet she's rare....Mario38432.4436458333

For $30,000 he ought to throw in a set of Waverly machines.

There's a $30,000 classical on there too - I wonder who the market for that is. A classical guitarist with $30,000 to burn is going to end up with a Romanillos or a Hauser.

I think I'm going to go ahead and redo my website and refer to myself in the third person.

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

When the time comes for me to retire from this business, I'm not going to announce my retirement, I'm simply going to raise my prices to 6 figures and walk away from the sales <bg>

Think of it, boys. Some guy who we've not heard of tosses out some marketing BS, coupled with stupid high prices, and sits back and sends his family and friends to his site to stroke his ego. Happens in all walks of life....

Mario with all due respect, I think you're forgetting than Jimmy D'Aquisto showed him his bracing system once!

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

Ummm, yeah, and?

I have a frame photo of Jimmy in my shop(really!). But that doesn't mean squat, right?

Its the BS marketing aspect that irks me, nothing else, and part of that is the name dropping.

Hell, I shook Grit Laskin's hand once; can I now raise my prices to his levels?

The bad part is that some young guitar builders will see that, and swallow it line, bait and sinker. They'll go around thinking that there is some magic bracing pattern known only to this one man, which was shown to him by this now deceased luthier of great reknown. In the meantime, any fool with a mirron and flashlight can look inside the guitar and copy the bracing....

It's like all the crazy folklore surrounding Strad's "secrets", and the folklore that e-bay sellers pile upon their woods, how they only cut the trees that ask to be cut, under the 3rd moon of the solstice while a naked virgin dances a dance shown to her by D'Aquisto's mother....

<bg>

Shoot, there was this guy a few years ago who was selling a service where he'd modify your guitar, promising to make it the best it could be. While you watched, he'd dip his wet finger into a dish of table salt, reach inside your guitar, and "shave" the bracing as only he could. With salt on his finger! Folks paid hundreds of dollars to watch this snake oil salesman rub salt into thei braces.

there's a sucker born every minute, but that doesn't mean we should seek to screw him out of his hard earned money <g>

Well just in case anything was lost in translation, I was being sarcastic...

There are people getting $25,000 or even $30,000 for some guitars - but if any of those guitars are not still in his posession I'll wager he didn't get half of what he was asking.

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Instagram: @jfrenchluthier
Web: https://www.jfrenchguitars.com/

My guess is that there are several if not most of us here on this forum that could build someone 10 guitars that each played as well or better than his magically brace $30k "masterpiece". I'll bet you that he never sold one at that price. A musician that is truly interested in an investment guitar is not going to pay $30k for a new build based on a magical bracing pattern. I could be terribly wrong but I have more faith in musicians common sense than I have in self proclaimed mastery.

I have played this man's guitars and they are the best guitars you will ever play or hear.

Paid Advertiser

Bingo <g>

I love the smell of Bullsh*t in the morning.

Hey Mario, I like the idea of only cutting the wood while a naked virgin dances, I think I'll try that one.

By the way, David Hume (luthier at the Royal College of Music) and Charles Beere (Consultant Luthier to RCM and Strad expert) occasionally use my laboratory to try and analyse Stradivarius' varnish, apparently it seems to be bog standard varnish available at the time. The Strad secret seems to be use good wood, build it carefully, leave for 300 years.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

OK E. Finkelstein with 1 post, your cloggin up the server here

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

I have built several guitars with a circle of sound bracing pattern. Really! And a circle of sound every-thing-else, too. Everything seems circular in these guitars. I mean, they just keep coming back to the shop for adjustments, touch-up, and whatnots. I'm working on one right now that has circled back in for some fretboard finish redo.


I hate the circle of sound.

SK

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

[QUOTE=E. Finkelstein] I have played this man's guitars and they are the best guitars you will ever play or hear.[/QUOTE]

For 30k it had better be super sonic. I have played Collins, Olson and may others each have a sound that is dif. What fits my ear may not fit yours. Tone outside of intonation, response and sustain is very subjective. I have no doubt that his work is superb. I just don’t figure it is exalted above all others.

John, at least Mario appreciated my attempt at humor.


ElmerE. Finkelstein38432.5718055556

Let me see, I have been to School (Galloup, been to John Mayes shop and worked and talked to alot of luthiers here. Have books and tapes etc. I am sure the guy is a very good luthier, and I for one couldn't carry his chisel. But 25K to 30K. I bet I could buy several extremly nice guitars from just as accomplished and maybe better builders on this site for that. Now I feel bad. I have talked to guy's, been to school and visited shops, and best I have been giving away 10K insturments, just for knowing or studying from known builders and saying names, or using information given to me on bracing or whatever. I was happy selling a couple for 800 or 1500 just to make up cost of other stuff, boy was I dumb, I didn't know could make them for sale at big money. Now all of you real builders should really start rolling in the bucks and placing a better price on guitars. Just a note of caution though, don't hold your breath for the cash flow, you could turn blue

I appreciate your humor,that's why I gave you the wink. I just thought I would point out that you can't make a new identity around here and go unnoticed. Welcome to the forum.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

[QUOTE=stan thomison]   I was happy selling a couple for 800 or 1500 just to make up cost of other stuff[/QUOTE]

I thought I was the only one doing this. I know I give 80% of my labor away on the construction side. I make a little of it back on the inlay work but not near enough probably. However I look at it this way. I have not built near enough to consider my self a journeyman yet. So the labor I am loosing is the tuition I am paying for this wonderful skill I am learning and the privilege of hearing someone make fine music with an instrument that came from my shop is the best premium I can exspect at this stage. To this day my wonder and exhilaration of the first moment someone makes music with one of my guitars still takes my breath awayMichaelP38432.5983912037

I noticed on his webpage that he has citars for $25000. Don't you know those Indians suffer from sticker shock when they see that price.

He took 5 trips to India to learn their building methods but obviously did not learn anything about their pricing methods

Now Elmer, you get back in here and you fix Momma's broken cooking device right quick! Enough of this foolin' around now! I've 'bout had enough of this web foolin' you keep doing. Everythime I log on, I have to do a yahoo search to see what kinda tyrouble you been gettin' us into.

Now there you go again, another new ID taking up space

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Say...his guitars sport Schallers with "pearl handles." I wonder what caliber they are?

I have to say, though, that his craftsmanship looks good, and there's a creative uniqueness in his designs. I don't know what to think about those $25-30K price tags. The article about him says he's fetching up to $7,000, which would be in line with an established, custom builder. Curious.

Carlton