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do any of you guys put the frets in before gluing down the fretboard to the neck?   I think I saw a picture of ol what's his name who builds guitars and runs Grizzly fretting a fingerboard sans neck. He was pressing in the frets with a fret press and the fingerboard was riding on a little tray of some sort.
I like to press in frets but it is such a hassle from about the 9th fret on that I resort to the hammer.

If the fret board could be fretted before gluing then problems would be solved. (of course other problems would be generated)

I use to do it this way but found it very hard to get everything level after word - Now I glue down the board first - then the neck to the body - level everything up - and only then do I fret it - however this creates a very scary scenario of dealing with the frets over the body. I'm really interested in the semi-hemispherical fretting tech - since you almost completely finish the fret before it hits the neck, that takes a lot of risk out of it. I think Sylvan is doing a workshop on this - Wish I could make it -- hmm this gives me an idea - maybe its time for a guest speaker to do a live demo at the OLF-- SYLVAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!LanceK38461.3389467593

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I can't picture this not racking the fret-board no matter how the fret-board is sucured. Once you take it off it's carrier I would think it would warp like a big spring due to the tenion of the frets. I once installed 14-20 prior to gluing down the fretboard to the body. I had issues. I have not done it again.

I use the taylor fret buck and don't worry about freting up over the body at all. I thought you had bought one of those do hickey's Lance. Try it you'll like it!

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Dave Bland

remember...

"If it doesn't play in tune...it's just pretty wood"

[QUOTE=LanceK] I use to do it this way but found it very hard to get everything level after word - Now I glue down the board first - then the neck to the body - level everything up - and only then do I fret it - however this creates a very scary scenario of dealing with the frets over the body. I'm really interested in the semi-hemispherical fretting tech - since you almost completely finish the fret before it hits the neck, that takes a lot of risk out of it. I think Sylvan is doing a workshop on this - Wish I could make it -- hmm this gives me an idea - maybe its time for a guest speaker to do a live demo at the OLF-- SYLVAN!!!!!!!!!!!!![/QUOTE]


Yes!!! I very much like that idea... or PERHAPS.... a VIDEO.... (Hint Hint)


I have been interested in this topic for a while now.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

You guys have articulated what I suspected. The wedging effect of the fret tang curving that fretboard. I was thinking that if you were to have everything else really flat you could force the fretted board to conform. BUT, it is so easy to redo the fingerboard flattness after gluing to the neck (if the frets are not in) that I think it probably outweighs the other convenience

I will second (or third) the hemispherical fretting online tutorial. Great Idea

John

I have tried going this rout too John as I thought it would be nice to do the fret work clear of the guitar but It's difficult to maintain the flatness while glueing.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Seems unanymous. I guess I'll file that in the "bad Idea" dept and thank all of you for saving me the trouble of learning the hard way.

One advantage of having a bolt on fingerboard extension is that you can fret that extension without it being on the guitar and avoid at least that particular stress filled operation

Actually I do fret first up to the end of the neck -12th or 14th fret. I use a hammer, not a press. That is the way I did it on my first guitar and it worked for me so I haven't bothered changing. My first guitar was a Stew-Mac kit and that's how Dan Erlewine teaches it. You then give some back bow to the neck during glue up. If you want to see the tutorial, you can go to the stew-mac site, find the page for the steel string kits and download the instruction book.

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Scott Thompson
Port Townsend,WA

"In a perfect world we'd all sing in tune
But this is reality so give me some room"
-Billy Bragg

http://luthiersforum.3element.com/pages/jig_tools_tech/frett ing_by_tim_mcknight.htm

Lots of ways to skin a cat but the above method has worked well for me.

Someone asked how to protect the top? I use pieces of padded linoleum vinyl flooring cut to the shape of the top. It is durable enough to protect the finish from slips with a file and thin enough to still allow finishing the fret ends.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

This was discussed recently on MIMF in a topic on hammering or pressing frets, and I was suprised how many people said that they did it ahead of time. I suppose if you can supply a lot of pressure evenly along the fretboard, there should be no problem. But that's a big if.

One downside to pre-fretting is IF your fingerboard isn't perfectly flat or you have a weird hump develop at the neck to body junction the only way to level is by filing frets [which isn't a good habbit to get into]. Personally I like to start with a dead flat FB, that is level sanded in the playing position and then add the frets. I don't have any problems with back bows due to post fret installation.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Bro I always thought your system was pretty good.
It was / is mine that's so bad.

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From Nacogdoches...the oldest town in Texas.

http://www.stephenkinnaird.com

I've been using the fret press before installing the fretboard. I've never had a problem with bowing (knock on wood). I just checked 2 that have been on the shelf for a year and they are still dead flat. Don't some folks cut the slots larger over the body and glue in the frets?

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

I take a small triangular shaped needle file and put a slight chamfer on the fret slot to guide the fret in while hammering them.

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

In the semi-hemispherical fretting method all frets are cut to precise
length and the ends are rounded and polished with jeweler's rouge before
the frets are ever put in the fingerboard. They are so polished the frets
literally look like jewelry! There is absolutely no cleaning up the edges of
the frets since all of the frets fit very precisely. They are not "pressed" in
with an arbor press or banged in with a hammer. It is a very precise
method as each fret is actually about .010" in from the sides of the
fretboard so the player will not "feel" any fret end. The other real
advantage is that if the guitar goes to a low humidity enviroment and the
fretboard shrinks there is nothing to fix (sharp fret ends). It has also been
my experience that there is also very little leveling that has to be done
once the frets are in the board. When I do this method (which is the only
way I fret my guitars now) the neck and body are finished and joined. I
then level the fretboard and begin the fretting process. The method is not
difficult but it took me about a year to perfect the original Harry
Fleishmann technique in a way that is repeatable and easily learned.
Lance, what do you have in mind as to sharing the method other than a
demo and teaching at my seminar?

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

Sylvan:
Could you post some step by step pics or basic instructions from measuring, cutting, polishing and methodology of inserting the frets. Any pitfalls to watch out for along the way. Any hard lessons that you have learned that would save us grief and shorten the learning curve? Maybe put together a Word document and insert some pictures to correspond with your text. Just trying to throw out some food for thought. TIA for sharing!

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tim...
http://www.mcknightguitars.com

Sylvan, How bout a new article on your website!!!

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Hey guys. I'm getting in on this one a little late.
I'm bucking the system I guess. I've done it both ways and actually prefer to press them prior to attaching the board to the neck. I always get a slight bow it the board but it easily disappers when I put a caul on and clamp it onto the neck.
I once broke off a fretboard at the 14th fret when I was pressing a fret into the extension. I thought I had it supported well but I guess I was wrong. That experience made me rethink my system.
Call me crazy but I like doing it this way.

Sylvan... you *** could *** cobble together a video... then you could see if Stew Mac or LMI would be interested in carrying it. It might make it worth the effort.

I am sure if you shot the raw footage it wouldn't be too hard to find someone to edit it.

I learn a lot more from seeing someone do it, than reading about how it is done.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Sylvan - a video would be great- But for the short run -
if your interested in doing a group of pictures showing step by step that would great too. I'd love to add that to the jigs tools and techs section.

My Dad is very adept at video editing and might be interested in doing the editing on a video should you decide to do one - I could ask him?
I also like the idea of adding a video help feature to the OLF - this might be a great one to start with?

Lance

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Either way you go with this Sylvan, I think you would get a lot of interest in it.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I have thought about everyone's suggestions and am not at all sure that
you could adequately explain the process with photos and written
instructions. So that's out. A video might be possible but I just do not
know if I want to do that right now. I have the seminar coming up and
people are paying for the information-I don't think it would be right to
publish it - certainly before the seminar. Maybe after ASIA's symposium I
might consider it. So, Lance, for now hold off talking with your father. I
really appreciate the offer but I just am not ready TODAY.

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Sylvan
http://www.wellsguitars.com

OK - thanks Sylvan -
Completely understandable --

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com